Posts by Island Man

16

How the Watchtower organization does, in fact, claim to be an inspired prophet.

by Island Man in

draw any jw's attention to watchtower's history of false predictions and invariably, somewhere down the line of the conversation, the jw will tell you that watchtower never claimed to be an inspired prophet and therefore cannot be accused of being a false prophet.

but is it really true that watchtower has never claimed to be an inspired prophet?.

technically speaking, the answer is yes - i think (if i'm wrong i'd love to see the quote).

Island Man

Great quotes, Splash!

16

How the Watchtower organization does, in fact, claim to be an inspired prophet.

by Island Man in

draw any jw's attention to watchtower's history of false predictions and invariably, somewhere down the line of the conversation, the jw will tell you that watchtower never claimed to be an inspired prophet and therefore cannot be accused of being a false prophet.

but is it really true that watchtower has never claimed to be an inspired prophet?.

technically speaking, the answer is yes - i think (if i'm wrong i'd love to see the quote).

Island Man

Draw any JW's attention to Watchtower's history of false predictions and invariably, somewhere down the line of the conversation, the JW will tell you that Watchtower never claimed to be an inspired prophet and therefore cannot be accused of being a false prophet. But is it really true that Watchtower has never claimed to be an inspired prophet?

Technically speaking, the answer is yes - I think (if I'm wrong I'd love to see the quote). So far as I'm aware they have never explicitly stated that they're an inspired prophet. But here's the thing: communication is not always direct and explicit. A person can deliberately communicate an idea to you in an indirect manner without speaking explicitly. This might be done, for example, through the use of insinuations.

Watchtower is aware of this. In fact, Watchtower uses this very principle of indirect communication to hold Satan guilty of disparaging God's motives. Watchtower claims that Satan communicated to Eve the idea that God lied to her and that he is selfishly withholding the benefits of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad from her and her husband. Satan never explicitly told Eve that God is a liar. Yet, Watchtower interprets his words to Eve as insinuating as much and on that basis JWs say that Satan proved to be a slanderer who disparaged God's character and motive. So if Satan can be guilty of saying something merely by insinuating it, then why can't the same be said of Watchtower? Doesn't the Watchtower organization insinuate that it's an inspired prophet?

Yes, it does. Watchtower claims to be the channel that God is using at this time. There are multiple instances in their literature, both old and new, where they clearly communicate the idea that God is today directing his people through the organization. They have even explicitly referred to themselves as being God's modern day prophet! They will only deny the qualification of "inspired" being added to the mix. No JW can honestly deny that the organization is a collective prophet of God. They will only deny that it is, or ever claims to be, an inspired prophet.

But here's the thing: The organization also touts itself as being God's "spirit-directed organization". To be inspired is to be directed by God's spirit. So if one claims to be spirit directed, he is in fact saying, in other words, that he is inspired! How can anyone claim to be God's sole spirit-directed channel, appointed by God to teach and direct his people, and repeatedly use this claim to elicit unquestioning obedience and deference to him and his teachings, but then turn around and say he never claimed to be an inspired prophet? Such a person would have to either be dishonest or confused.

So in a round-about way the Watchtower organization is claiming to be an inspired prophet by arrogantly portraying itself as having a role that fits the profile of an inspired prophet. They are doing this to get JWs to treat them like a prophet - to give them the same obedience and deference that bible characters gave to the inspired prophets of the bible. They want the prestige and authority that inspired prophets of the bible had. But at the same time they explicitly deny that they're inspired prophets. Why? Because they don't want the scrutiny and the judgment that comes to those who prove to be false prophets. They say they are not inspired prophets so that they can later use those words to weasel out of being labeled a false prophet when their predictions and teachings prove them to be such. Watchtower is essentially being duplicitous for the sake of expedience.

Do not let JWs get away with saying that Watchtower never claimed to be an inspired prophet. That is a trivial and irrelevant technicality because Watchtower's own descriptions of itself in its literature over the years, matches the profile of an inspired prophet.

36

How many JWs really believe the end will come "soon"?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

this topic has been on my mind lately.

i have been looking around at jws and wondering how many truly believe the end is as near as they are told.

from my personal experience, i know that my parents fully believe the end is imminent and may come any time now.

Island Man

I would guess that at least a third of them don't really believe the end will come in their lifetime - including even some who are openly saying that the end is so close.

Saying that the end is close is part of the JW doctrine line that all JWs must toe or risk being labeled as a spiritually weak ridiculer. So many JWs just give perfunctory voice to this position because it's the right thing to say as a JW.

56

PBS program

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

watching the pbs program as i write...........

Island Man

"I thought if a person was baptized and was recognized as a publisher, that records of misconduct or DFing is suppose to be passed on to the following congregation to where the person moved to ?"

I think in this case - cases of pedophilia - the elders are probably instructed by Watchtower to not even mention this in introduction letters sent to other congregations. Watchtower's primary concern seems to be to keep such incidents as secret as possible so as to protect their clean image.

40

Flier on "Day and Week of Christ's Death" to be mailed out to Kingdom Halls this week!

by CharlieSmith1975 in

the tricky thing about a mass mailing to all the kingdom halls is that mail is often not delivered to the kingdom hall but to a po box.

it is super easy to get all the addresses to hundreds of kingdom halls across the country and even have those addresses printed out for you as labels!

but when i did that before i got about a third of them back.

Island Man

Actually, the bible does teach that Jesus died on Friday.

(Luke 23:53-56) . . .And he took it down and wrapped it up in fine linen, and he laid him in a tomb carved in the rock, in which no man had yet lain. 54 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the evening light of the sabbath was approaching. 55 But the women, who had come with him out of Gal′i·lee, followed along and took a look at the memorial tomb and how his body was laid; 56 and they went back to prepare spices and perfumed oils. But, of course, they rested on the sabbath according to the commandment.
(John 19:31) . . .Then the Jews, since it was Preparation, in order that the bodies might not remain upon the torture stakes on the Sabbath, (for the day of that Sabbath was a great one,) requested Pilate to have their legs broken and the [bodies] taken away.

The Jewish sabbath starts at sundown on Friday.

33

All things considered, when will THE JW religion end?

by sowhatnow in

id give a guess of maybe another 15 to 20 years ,.

nothing will be the same , if there even is a headquarters.. opinion?.

Island Man

Here's how I think it will end: One day there will be a huge Watchtower scandal that will make most if not all the major news networks' top stories. This will result in many JWs hearing it and becoming disillusioned. Also, "people in the territory" will hear it too and will confront JWs with it everywhere they go knocking on doors. A large segment of JWs - maybe half or more - will leave.

This news would be so scandalous that it will forever tarnish the image of JWs so that no one "in the territory" would consider JWs a viable religion, much less the only true religion. And so over a period of years or decades the remaining JW population would stagnate at first and eventually it will start dwindling slowly as they die off, until there are just a few thousand left scattered across the globe. By then Watchtower would be out of business and the last few die hards would be forever going over older literature last published decades ago, until eventually there are no JWs left.

In the midst of this crisis, some members of the GB might split off and create a new sect under a different name. The new sect might then either be JW 2.0 or an entirely new, fully reformed religion that discards all the cultic rubbish of the JWs.

33

Does everyone here know they are on record with JW's forever?

by runForever in

jw
friends

richard ashe a full-time special servant of the order of jehovah's witnesses testified in the lopez case that every single disfellowshipping and disassociation and other things have all been scanned in 2011 and are and will be on permanent record with jw's forever.

is this legal?

another completely ironic and warped thing is the disfellowshipping form is called the s77 form.

Island Man

Jesus said to forgive up to 77 times. I have a feeling that S77 means "Surpassing 77 [sins]". LOL.

24

A brazen falsehood in this week's Watchtower study! (week of Feb 9 - 15, 2015)

by Island Man in

on page 13 of the december 15, 2014 watchtower (study edition), the first 2 sentences of paragraph 10 say:.

"the symbolic separating of fish does not refer to the final judgment during the great tribulation.

rather, it highlights what would happen during the last days of this wicked system.".

Island Man

Thanks for the links Bobcat. Very insightful information!

24

A brazen falsehood in this week's Watchtower study! (week of Feb 9 - 15, 2015)

by Island Man in

on page 13 of the december 15, 2014 watchtower (study edition), the first 2 sentences of paragraph 10 say:.

"the symbolic separating of fish does not refer to the final judgment during the great tribulation.

rather, it highlights what would happen during the last days of this wicked system.".

Island Man

Ok here's an update:

I gave the comment. To paraphrase my comment, I basically mentioned Matt. 13:49,50 pointing to some of the key details there and saying that because of those details it might incline some to think that the separating is at the great tribulation. Then after a brief pause I said the faithful slave is telling us that isn't the case.

I made sure to word it in such a way as to expose how the details pointed to a GT fulfillment but without committing myself to the idea that it is so. I was also careful to use the right tone of voice. I worded it in such a way that all it takes is a different tone of voice for the exact same words of my comment to come across as a sarcastic jab at the faithful and discreet slave!

During my comment, there was no detectable hushed murmuring or any other indication that it stirred up the JWs in any negative or controversial way. In fact, after the meeting several JWs - including elders - commended me for my comment. But I know for a fact that my comment had an effect on their minds. How so?

One JW who commended me on my comment told me words to the effect that initially, at the start of my comment, he/she was a bit worried or shocked about what I was saying. LOL. So I suspect that many JWs had the same feeling when they heard what I was saying, but by the end of the comment they couldn't bring themselves to believe that it was a deliberate attempt to cast doubt on the FDS' teaching. So all in all I would say my goal has been met.

I got them to think without giving them any solid basis to accuse me. It also helps that I comment very rarely - that means they're always looking to give me commendation for any comment I make on a rare occasion. Their minds are set on encouraging me to comment more regularly so they wouldn't want to say anything to me that could discourage me from commenting. LOL. And a rare commenter doesn't exactly fit the profile of a sneaky apostate who's looking for every opportunity to plant doubts.

Although I saw absolutely no indication of it, I wouldn't be surprised if the elders are worried. They probably figure that I haven't said anything incriminating enough to warrant speaking with me without making themselves appear to be paranoid. LOL.

This is fun! I think it might be a way for those still trapped and having to attend meetings, to give some sense of purpose and enjoyment to what would otherwise be a totally boring and sickening affair.

24

A brazen falsehood in this week's Watchtower study! (week of Feb 9 - 15, 2015)

by Island Man in

on page 13 of the december 15, 2014 watchtower (study edition), the first 2 sentences of paragraph 10 say:.

"the symbolic separating of fish does not refer to the final judgment during the great tribulation.

rather, it highlights what would happen during the last days of this wicked system.".

Island Man

I keep hearing references to 'gnashing of teeth'. So what happens to people like me who have none of their own teeth? Will God supply some sort of indestructible dentures? And furthermore, will I have to pay for these?

LOL